Strasbourg, 10 February 2010

International Conference on Ultras

“Good practices on dealing with new developments in supporters’ behaviour”

(17-18 February, Vienna, Austria)

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Interview with Daniela Wurbs, Football Supporters Europe

Daniela Wurbs is responsible for the overall coordination as CEO of the Football Supporters Europe (FSE). FSE is an independent, representative and democratically organised network of football fans, fan-related initiatives, groups and organisations in Europe.

Council of Europe: What has been the role of Football Supporters Europe in the organisation of this conference?

Daniela Wurbs: We have been involved by the Council of Europe in an advisory capacity to represent the fans’ viewpoint already in the preparatory stage. We’ve committed ourselves as FSE to do our part to help to provide conditions at the event which can support a balanced dialogue between all parties involved on an equal footing on this important topic and to thereby ensure that fans’ representatives from different European countries would find it worthwhile to attend this event. Also, we’ve supported the development process of the expertise on Ultras which was compiled by Prof. Gunter Pilz and Franziska Wölki-Schumacher on behalf of the Council of Europe to accompany the event. And last but not least, we put a delegation of 17 different fans’ representatives together – members of the FSE Committee and additional fans’ representatives from different ultra groups across Europe – that will attend the event to bring in the fans’ perspective from a wide variety of backgrounds.

CoE: Ultras often speak about an ultra culture. What does it mean for you?

D. W.: Supporters who describe themselves as ‘Ultra’ consider themselves as “extreme” fans of their club/team.  Having said that and contrary to the dominant public opinion on ultras, this “extreme” is not to be seen as something negative in the first place but rather in the sense of being “very passionate”. To put it very briefly: in other areas of society we have Mods and Punks, in football there are Ultras.

What this should say is, that Ultra is not just to be seen as another type of fans’ group inside a stadium, it is a lifestyle and subculture whose different forms of expression reach well beyond the actual match day.

Fans who’d describe themselves as Ultra, live “being ultra” as an essential part of their identity and everyday life. Their main focus is their fellow group members and their (sometimes irrational) support for, or identification with, their team/club.

With the overall intention to revive the stadia and cheer for their team, they express their support for their club with colourful audio-visual presentations inside the stadium, that they prepared during the week or even over several months! If they are able to or if they are allowed to, they travel to every away game, they organise events and various social projects around the club, sell their own merchandise and often even have their own premises where they prepare stadium displays, store banners and/or just gather. On the basis of their intense commitment for the club and their insight into the clubs’ business coming along with this, ultras also see it as important to take a critical stand on club policies and the development of modern football which often seems to neglect the importance of the fans contribution for the attractiveness of the game, for the sake of its commercial exploitation.  

CoE: In your opinion where does the negative image of ultras often depicted in the media come from?

D. W.: I personally think that on one hand, the term “Ultra” already suggests a negative meaning to most people who don’t know much about this culture. Also, it obviously cannot be denied that there have been also violent incidents with the involvement of or around ultra groups in football which have received big media attention, leading to a mostly undifferentiated equating of ultra culture with hooliganism. However, experience and scientific research has shown that these incidents can be down to the initial behavior of members of ultra groups or, and we found that this second version is sadly too often the case, they can just originate from or even be triggered by disproportionate and/or undifferentiated treatment of ultra groups, in particular by police and stewards.

Ultra culture came up in many countries just shortly after or even overlapping with the downfall of hooliganism in football, e.g. in Germany. But despite the fact that the ultra culture has had a totally different focus and a positive origin with regards to its self-conception, there are some superficial (mainly visual) similarities between ultras and hooligans that can be and have often been mistaken by journalists and other outsiders, like the police, that haven’t been familiar with ultra culture from the very start: e.g. ultras usually present themselves as closed groups with a very strong internal solidarity, they mostly don’t wear traditional club merchandise like football shirts and club colours in high visibility but rather a fashionable dark street wear style of clothing.

Against this background, it could be observed in quite a few countries across Europe when ultra culture was on the rise, that measures that had been introduced years before to tackle hooliganism, were transferred one-to-one to the dealing with ultra groups in football, probably out of a fatal lack of information on the phenomenon. This level of equaling of hooliganism with ultra culture may then in return have further triggered an undifferentiated and overtly negative media image of ultra. Meanwhile, there are quite a few scientists and experts in the field that would currently even go as far as to say that violent actions committed by ultra groups nowadays can almost be interpreted as a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy in the sense of “if you treat us solely as if we were all hooligans, we might as well behave like them”. This obviously shouldn’t be seen as an excuse for violent behavior, by no means, but still it might represent an important aspect of a multi-layered explanation for violence in football which is not known publicly.

CoE: Does it have an impact on how police deal with ultras?

D. W.: I personally think that there is a dynamic correlation between the dominant public opinion / media reports on ultras and the policing and stewarding of ultra groups. Both react on each other. The biggest problem in this context from my viewpoint is certainly the fact that both policing and media reporting in many places does not convey an impression that there is a differentiated perspective on what ultra culture means, especially in distinction to hooliganism. In return, this often creates interacting problems and suggests that there might be a serious lack of information and dialogue on the side of the media, but also with the authorities and football’s governing bodies.

CoE: How could the dialogue between supporters, sporting bodies and police be improved?

D. W.: For a long time, dialogue between football governing bodies, public authorities and police on fan-related issues happened without any involvement of the supporters themselves as the fans, including ultras were seen mainly as the problem and not as integral part of any solution. In many countries in Europe this is sadly still the case.

In recent years, however, there have been more and more initiatives organised by football’s governing bodies and governmental institutions or single clubs or even fans’ groups, which lead to an increasing involvement of fans viewpoints and a direct dialogue between all stakeholders in football with their supporters. So-called fans’ projects, social projects that act as fans’ experts and intermediates between supporters, authorities, police and football governing bodies and have proved immensely successful in countries like Holland or Germany, for instance, and they can play an essential role in establishing this dialogue.

Experience and exchange with our membership in FSE has shown and further confirmed that wherever there is a decent level of self-organisation among football fans, and where there are opportunities for supporters to take part as equal partners in genuine dialogue; where supporters’ concerns and interests are taken seriously; and where supporters are involved in decision-making processes – then there can be a perceptible improvement in atmosphere, an increase in community involvement, and a reduction in any form of problematic incidents, such as violence.

CoE: What role can ultras play in the football world?

D. W.: I believe that if ultras were given the most possible room and support to live out all the positive aspects that are part of their fan culture, they can be a great asset to any club and football environment and significantly improve the atmosphere at any ground via their visual and acoustic support. And the criticism that they express on the governance of modern football or policing shouldn’t be seen as empty protest or just as a rebellion of teenagers but as messages that should be taken seriously as they come from the most loyal and passionate contributors that a football club might wish to have. Most ultras care about the well-being of their club/team like only very few others do. And the most important thing that fans, and in particular ultras want is that their immense contribution, both financial and physical, their presence and commitment is appreciated by the football world and valued with all consequences as a decisive factor for the attractiveness of this game.

CoE: What are your expectations of the conference?

D. W.: Me personally - and I know that also the entire fans’ delegation – I see this conference as a potentially important initial step to kick-off a sustainable dialogue between supporters, in particular with ultras, and governmental institutions and especially with the police at European level. We are aware of the fact that it is an experiment and the first event of its kind at this international level. But after the very positive signals we’ve received from the Council of Europe with regards to the preparations up until now, we are sure that  it is definitely worth a try. Certainly, nobody expects that we’ll all be friends afterwards but this doesn’t mean that we can’t discuss with each other in a productive way.

I’m sure that if the dialogue at this conference can happen on equal footing as a two-way communication and with a positive overall approach, if the conference is not being seen as a one-off event where the fans present are merely perceived as representatives of “a species” to deal with under security aspects, I’m sure that the conference can make a very valuable contribution towards a better understanding of ultra culture in the long-run and raise awareness for the need and added value of a dialogue between public authorities, in particular security forces and football supporters.