This interview is copyright-free for publication by your media.

Walter Riester : The European social model depends for survival on the Council of Europe Social Charter

In the age of globalisation, the European Social Charter is an indispensable tool for preserving the European social model, according to German member of parliament Walter Riester. On behalf of extensive sections of the population Europe-wide, the Social Charter lays down welfare standards in an increasingly deregulated economy. The Parliamentary Assembly’s Committee on Social Affairs, Health and Family of which the SPD elected representative is a member, met in Berlin this week and discussed the Charter’s increasing significance in future, particularly concerning basic rights in employment and social matters. The Charter, he says, also protects the role of the trade unions, whose influence, nationally, is suffering as a result of global competition for location of industry. Riester wants the Council of Europe to take more action on behalf of migrant workers, whose numbers are on the increase, to make sure they do not fall victim to low pay. Until autumn 2002 Riester was Germany’s labour and social affairs minister.

Interview (25.04.2003)

Question : The Council of Europe is influential in the struggle for basic freedoms and the rule of law but has not been particularly prominent in the social sphere. Why does the Social Charter carry so little weight?

Walter Riester : Politically, the Council of Europe’s Human Rights Convention has tangible effects. Democratic elections, basic rights such as freedom of opinion, prohibition of the death penalty and torture are things which loom quite large and are equally binding on all countries. In contrast, social legislation, historically, has developed in widely differing ways from country to country. The Social Charter, with its general standards, comes across as somewhat abstract character, remote from people’s day-to-day preoccupations, making it harder for people to get to grips with it. The Charter calls, among other things, for measures to avert poverty and decline of living standards, but what that means in concrete terms differs from one country to another and also depends on how the national economy is performing.

Question : Globalisation undermines social security systems, and in many countries there have been cuts in health provision and provision for the elderly. Can the Social Charter help rescue the European social model?

Walter Riester : Definitely. An international legal instrument such as the charter is an absolute prerequisite for maintaining and further developing what the European social model has created. But the anti-globalisation protest movement has a core demand - welfare provision as a bulwark against increasingly deregulated economic processes. The Social Charter meets precisely that demand by imposing basic standards on all countries notwithstanding the various differences from one country to another.

Question : Is it primarily in the economically weaker eastern part of Europe that the Charter has a role to play as a protection mechanism for large sections of the population? Or is the Charter being contravened in wealthier western Europe too?
Walter Riester : The Charter has effects in both east and west. Naturally things like fair pay, decent working conditions, health provision and vocational training are bigger issues in economically underdeveloped societies than in prosperous countries. But it is not unknown for the Social Charter to clash with national policy in the west as well. In Germany, for instance, civil servants are not allowed to strike, which raises complicated issues given the trade union rights which the Social Charter guarantees.

Question : Globalisation, with the resultant competition for location of industry and the attendant pressure on pay, diminishes trade union influence. Does this mean that the Council of Europe has a possible role as a champion of worker organisations?

Walter Riester : The Council of Europe undoubtedly underpins the trade unions’ role - freedom of assembly and the right to joint decision-making and collective bargaining are laid down in the Social Charter as international norms. That protection is indispensable, but the Council of Europe cannot replace the unions and cannot make policy in their stead. The unions’ concrete influence depends on their adjusting and reacting flexibly to changing economic conditions.

Question : From the outset the Social Charter recognised economic migrants as having social rights. Is this set to be a future emphasis in Council of Europe social policy? Increasing international mobility of the workforce often goes hand in hand with low pay and social insecurity.

Walter Riester : At all events the Council of Europe must step up its activities in that sector. Easing of restrictions on the employment market is a consequence of the policy of European integration. Compulsory social minima - in pay, for example - are therefore an urgent challenge. If the European Union now extends eastwards, it is going to have to tackle these issues. And in those countries which have no immediate prospect of EU membership the Social Charter is going to take on increased importance as protection for migrant workers.

Question : Does Germany meet all the Social Charter standards?

Walter Riester : Not in so many words. In principle Germany has a high standard of differentiated welfare legislation. But individual provisions can infringe Social Charter rules. Germany, in line with the Charter, of course prohibits work by young people. But temporary involvement of young people in, for instance, artistic projects on an exceptional basis may be contrary to the Social Charter. Germany’s lack of any formal right to strike is a further example. In Germany the right to strike is something which the courts have gradually developed in dealing with specific disputes between trade unions and employers. The German unions themselves are not in favour of strike legislation since it might limit their freedom of action.